TPJ11 | All Men Lust: Changing Toxic Conversations | 11.10.22

Foreign.

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Today we're going to talk about a tough topic and one that might create some tension with our listeners.

But healthy tension can be good for a growth.

And on this podcast you can always count on it being raw and honest.

You can count on it being challenging and encouraging in how we can move forward in our spiritual journey.

So the goal here today is to expose a toxic conversation that is harmful to mental health.

I want to be part of the solution to help change the conversation to say something that is more helpful.

But this is not just harmful to men, it is also harmful to the women in their lives.

Whatever that relationship may be, whether it's a spouse, a dating relationship, a family member, or just all brothers and sisters in Christ, it does not just harm men, it harms all those connected to those relationships.

Now, the conversation that I want to address is one that is typically taught in church settings and the conversation typically begins with this statement, all men lust.

Now, I grew up being taught that all men lust by other men, but I have come out of a lot of those teachings and I believe this is toxic and enables weak men who just are not challenged to live out their godly energy.

In the circles I grew up in, this teaching would leave women feeling hopeless in their marriages or hopeless at even finding a healthy man to marry.

And believe it or not, it even left them feeling unsafe at church because they were worried and even felt the weight and responsibility of men looking at them and lusting after them as they were being told this was the case for the men.

Maybe you've experienced this in different settings and you've been left feeling hopeless, that this problem would never go away and victory can't be attained this side of heaven.

But there is hope and we will talk about that if you are a woman listening and you are feeling that hopelessness too.

First, I want to say I am so sorry for the spiritual and emotional abuse that you have experienced through this teaching.

We really need to call it what it is and address it as such.

But I also want to say there is hope for you as well.

And maybe you are listening and thinking, is this even really a problem?

I would also encourage you to listen through to the end.

Maybe you are Wondering why I am so passionate about this topic, it is because I came out of many toxic teachings like this one.

I have even repeated this toxic narrative to other men.

And not only was I teaching it to other men, I was emotionally and spiritually abusive through my use of pornography.

And it affected all the relationships in my life.

As men, we think that we can keep porn in our lives and keep it separate from everything else going on in our lives.

We can keep it separate maybe for a short time, but then it eventually bleeds out into every area of our lives.

And what I mean by emotional and spiritual abuse through using porn is that very thing.

It bleeds out into every area of our lives.

And also the quote unquote values that we learn from porn affect the way we relate to the world around us and the way we relate to the people around us.

And it creates what one author calls the pornified style of relating.

Andrew Bauman is an author who talks about this style of relating and a lot of his writing.

And we will actually be doing a separate episode on just the pornified style of relating and how this affects our everyday relationships.

So we won't go into too much detail explaining that right now.

You'll have to stick around for the next episode.

So I am passionate about it because it is an issue.

And I am joining other men who have started to speak out against these teachings and behaviors.

I am glad to see that there are a lot of women who are addressing these topics and how harmful it has been for women.

But the sad thing is that we need more male voices speaking into this.

We need more men standing up and saying, enough is enough.

I want to be a healthy man that women can feel safe around.

I want to treat women as God intended, taken from man's side as an equal, equally reflecting the image of God and as our sisters in Christ made for God's intended purpose.

I want to be that kind of man.

And I hope you do as well.

And so I hope this episode is helpful in that area.

My prayer is that all who hear this episode feel empowered to live their lives in the way God intended for them.

That men would hear this and realize that they don't have to live in fear and shame, feeling like they can never change.

Because that, my friend, is not the message of the gospel.

So this is what our time together will look like.

For this episode, I want to talk about five problems with the all men lust statement.

And then I want to talk about a few unhealthy or unbiblical solutions that we often hear associated with this conversation.

But then we will end with hope.

We will talk about a few healthy biblical thoughts and solutions to that can help us change this conversation.

Now, this list is not exhaustive, but these are things that I have thought through in my own personal spiritual journey and I'm praying they will be helpful to you as well.

Maybe if you have thoughts on other things in your journey or other things that are not in this list, I would definitely love to hear from you and what those are and how those have been helpful to you through your journey.

So let's first start by identifying the problem with the statement all men lust.

Now when I say that statement that all men lust, we're talking about in the specific area of visual and sexual in nature.

Now I know that there's all different kinds or types of lust, but in this episode we are specifically dealing more with the visual and sexual nature of lust.

So the first problem we see with this is is that the statement all men lust assumes that lust is gender based.

You will not find anywhere in scripture that lust is identified as a gender based sin.

Nowhere will you ever hear scripture say that men are burdened with being the only gender to lust.

Women are not immune, and that's just part of our sin natures.

Now there are people who advocate for this teaching that will say, ladies, we all just have to deal with it.

It was how men were created and it's a struggle we men will always face.

Now, I don't want to get too much into critiquing books.

There are many podcasts and authors who have done a fantastic job at critiquing certain books and giving good reviews of books.

But one book specifically that was very popular in my time growing up during the purity culture and is still surprisingly very popular today was a book called Every Man's Battle.

And that book pushes this message that all men lust.

But this type of attitude towards lust just perverts the scriptures.

God did not create men to lust.

Genesis 1:31 says, Then God looked over all he had made and he saw that it was very good.

It doesn't say that he saw it was very good except for the lust he put in the hearts of man and woman.

God did not create men to lust.

Lust comes from the sinful desires of our hearts.

Now I want to put a disclaimer and say this.

It may be true that men were created to be more visual and that would definitely be more accurate to say.

But sometimes we combine visual and lust to mean the same things and they are not the same.

You See, it is not all black and white.

While men might be more visual than women, there are women who are more visual than men.

So we can't just make one or the other a blanket statement.

The second problem we see with this statement that all men lust, as I've already just started to touch on, is that it does not address lust as a heart issue.

James, chapter one says, in verses 14 and 15, temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and drag us away.

Verse 15 says, these desires give birth to sinful actions, and when sin is allowed to grow, it gives birth to death.

So we can see from these verses it is not the fact that all men lust.

It is the fact that men who are carnal and feeding their sinful flesh and desires, those are the men that lust.

But what is lust?

Let's talk a little bit about that.

Lust is something that comes from the sinful desires in our heart.

And as the verses above say, lust or really any sin, is born out of our desires, giving birth to sinful actions and even death.

Lust is wanting something that is not for us, and it's perverting something that was created, intended for God's glory.

So the lie that we are being told is that all men lust.

But the truth is that lust is a carnal influence that can affect anyone who is not walking in the Spirit.

First, John 2:16 says, for the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions.

These are not from the Father, but are from the world.

Some translations translate those phrases as the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

These are not from the Father, but are from the world.

Friends, lust is not a plague that men have to trudge through the rest of their lives.

That endless cycle of fall and get up, fall and get back up, fall and get back up, and accept all of this with a defeatist attitude.

It is not a way to live in the freedom of the gospel.

If I were to tell you not to think about a green elephant, and you go through your day saying, I can't think about the green elephant.

I just, I can't think about this green elephant.

What are you doing?

You are thinking about the green elephant.

This is an acknowledgment of our tendencies without helpful redirection of our energy.

And that can feel disparaging.

I mean, I used to go through my entire day saying, oh man, I just can't look at a woman today in lust.

That is so exhausting.

When I reflect back on those years of my life, it was just exhausting.

It makes you never want to leave your house, and there's just no freedom in that mindset.

The Gospel promises something better for us.

The third problem with the phrase all men lust is that because it doesn't identify lust as a heart issue, it dismisses our responsibility to grow spiritually.

Galatians 5:22 23 says, but the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives.

Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there.

Notice that statement.

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross.

Or that verse specifically in 24 talks about our responsibility to grow spiritually, to be feeding the fruit of the Spirit and not our flesh.

You know, the more I talk to people about this topic and the more I have started to share my personal story, I have noticed a trend in the men who have been instrumental in teaching and supporting this conversation that all men lust.

And the thing that I am finding is that more often than not someone supporting this way of thinking is using it as a way to excuse their own lust, their own use of porn or whatever it may be.

That was the truth when it came to my own story and sin struggles as well.

It was easier to explain it away or give myself an excuse to keep it going because I was convinced that I was doomed to always fight it, so why even bother fighting it?

That was the attitude I had and there was no hope.

It was a false gospel.

The fourth problem with the statement all men lust is that if we are supposed to just accept this reality, then what are women supposed to do with this?

Many have felt like they are unfairly asked to submit to this truth, to accept it just like the men do and look the other way.

Many times I hear people say the phrase boys will be boys.

We all just have to deal with it.

Where is that in scripture that is such heresy?

And this teaching creates a tension among brothers and sisters in Christ that should not be there.

I addressed this earlier, but women are going to church and not feeling safe.

The one place that people should be able to come and feel the love of God and feel safe and cared for.

They are not feeling that.

They are feeling objectified in church.

They are left wondering what a man is thinking of them when they try to carry on a conversation.

The fifth problem with this teaching and conversation is that it teaches that the gospel is not big enough to overcome lust.

It is a doomsday message with no hope.

It leaves us feeling defeated before we even try to overcome the problem.

So now that we've looked at some of the problems with this teaching, I want to talk a little bit about a couple wrong solutions.

What solutions actually make the problem worse?

And maybe you're familiar with some of these.

And maybe, like I said before, it's not an exhaustive list, so maybe there's some more that you are familiar with.

But these are the two biggest unhealthy solutions that are probably the most common.

The first unhealthy solution Bounce your eyes.

Have you ever heard of this term bounce your eyes?

It was very popular during the years of purity culture.

And if you've never heard of that term before, it means that when someone sees someone that is attractive, they have to bounce their eyes and look somewhere else to prevent them from lusting.

This solution enhances the problem by continuing to focus on external created things.

This solution enhances the problem also by treating women as incomplete or parts.

It is objectifying.

It communicates to a woman that they are only good for their body parts to be pieced out for our gratification.

It makes them feel like they can't be respected as people who were created in the same image that we were.

God's image.

The second unhealthy solution that I want to talk about is that women need to stop dressing provocatively.

People who hold to this solution, it enhances the problem by blaming a woman for a man's lust.

Like we talked about earlier in the it doesn't identify lust as a heart issue.

And have you ever thought that maybe a woman is not trying to dress provocatively?

Maybe she is just wearing what she is wearing to be comfortable?

This solution also makes the false assumption that every woman wants you and is dressing in ways to entice others.

This comes from the pornified style of relating that we talked about earlier by Andrew Bowman, and it's created by porn use.

Now, it would be helpful for us to be mindful of each other's sin issues and not cause someone else to unintentionally stumble.

But we cannot be the judge of someone else's motives, and we definitely cannot use our judgment of someone else's motives as an excuse for us to sin to lust.

My main point is that sin issues cannot be cured with behavior modification.

And to put it honestly, a woman changing the way she dresses is not going to change a man's lust.

A Man who is lustful would lust after her even if she was wearing a burlap sack.

He would find a way to lust after her because that lust exists in his heart.

He is not pursuing self control, a fruit of the Spirit.

He is not nailing the passions and desires of his sinful nature to the cross of Christ and crucifying them.

There.

He is feeding his sinful passions.

But we cultivate the fruit of the Spirit by pursuing God.

Galatians 6, 7, 8 says this.

Don't be misled.

You cannot mock the justice of God.

You will always harvest what you plant.

Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful nature will.

Will harvest decay and death from that sinful nature.

But those who live to please the Spirit will harvest everlasting life from the Spirit.

Again, this is cultivated by pursuing God.

Now that we've looked at that, I want to look at some healthy solutions and just healthy biblical thoughts that we can think through to help change this conversation.

Where do we find hope in all of this that we've just talked about?

What does it look like to be a healthy man that respects women?

The first thing recognize beauty as God created it to be.

It was created to be a reflection of his glory and his image.

Women were created as image bearers of God's image, just as men were.

I find it so hard to believe and understand why this is so hard to comprehend for so many people who are pushing this conversation that all men love lust.

We go back to Genesis 1:26,27.

Then God said, let us make human beings in our image to be like us.

They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.

Verse 27.

So God created human beings in his own image.

In the image of God, he created them.

Here it is male and female.

He created them.

And what I'm about to say is probably going to be one of the most surprising things about changing this conversation.

And this is one of the things that I get the most pushback on when I interact with people on this topic.

There is a difference between lust and noticing.

And believe it or not, there is nothing sinful about noticing.

We notice beauty in God's creation every day, every time we walk outside.

The wind, the mountains, the animals.

So why then do we teach men to feel guilty about noticing the beauty of a woman who was also created to reflect God's glory?

It is a natural thing, and we were created for to notice beauty because it reflects God's glory.

We were created to worship the Creator, not created things.

And all of creation points to the Creator.

And that includes women.

And here in a couple minutes, we'll talk a little more about that as I ask some thoughtful questions.

And we'll talk a little bit more about the difference between lust and noticing.

The second healthy thought is that God created us to become more like what we worship.

When we worship or value or live for created things, we reflect what we worship.

We become carbon copies of what we worship.

If it's a created thing, we become less than what God created us to be.

We become a copy of a copy because we're trying to recreate what God already created.

3.

The gospel frees us from turning to the right or left.

It frees us from managing wrong behaviors.

The gospel is a new way altogether.

And when we put our trust in Christ, he gives us a new heart.

It doesn't mean we stop lusting after creation overnight.

It doesn't mean that we won't have struggles.

But it means that our beliefs begin to change.

And as our beliefs change, so does our behavior.

So it begins with heart change.

When we direct our energy and focus towards the noble pursuit of becoming more like Christ, we become more like Him.

And like the above point, we become more like what we place our value in.

But the good news is when we resist the devil, he will flee.

And that is our hope.

Christ in us, his life giving Spirit in us his life giving Spirit transforms us within to desire him more and more.

He came to give us life and life more abundantly.

And he wants us to be witnesses of his good work.

And believe it or not, he wants us to be more free from bondage to sin than we ourselves are willing to believe and turn from.

That leads me to this do you even want to be well?

Do you want to be a healthy man that women can feel safe around?

How often have you prayed the prayer, God, please take away this struggle with lust.

I'm raising my hand right now because I prayed that prayer so many times I lost count.

For years and years I prayed that prayer.

And it wasn't until 2018 when I got plugged into a healthy church that I was taught that this prayer actually shows that we want God to do our work for us.

We want God to fix us and take away our problems without putting in the work to change.

As we talked about earlier, the verses are the fruit of the Spirit.

We have to nail our sinful desires to his cross.

There is work involved and God is not going to take away the struggle.

He wants to see us have a desire for him to forsake that sin and turn to Him.

He doesn't want us to be robots.

He wants to see us have that desire and relationship with Him.

Another question Are you using these moments as an opportunity to recognize beauty and embrace what God created?

Or are you using these moments as an opportunity to desire what God has not intended for your own purposes?

Are you carrying it further to the point of fantasizing?

Are you turning noticing into lusting?

And see, my fear is that too often men are being told that a situation is lusting when it is just noticing and we are creating a fear and shame for noticing beauty that was created by God.

So another question that stems from what are you doing when you recognize beauty?

What are you doing with your thoughts?

Are you recognizing the beauty and moving on with your day, or are you taking that further and lusting and fantasizing and taking that beauty and twisting it for your own purposes?

Are you being a consumer?

Do you use beauty for your own gain?

Or can you allow God's creation to exist and thrive and even nurture it by giving your energy for its growth?

You know, no matter if the lust struggle is a man or a woman, we need to interact with each other as whole beings, not just partial beings that we piece out for our own gratification and selfishness.

We need to have healthy dialogue that points each other more towards Christ and I want to be part of that conversation.

I hope this episode is helpful in helping you think differently about this conversation that all men lust.

I'd love to hear from you and maybe your personal story and journey of being exposed to this teaching and how maybe you have walked through this yourself and thought through this and prayed through this.

I'm praying that these questions and the things that we've talked about today can be a challenge to uncover heart issues and help bring them into the light.

And I pray that it can be an encouragement for us to pursue freedom and that can only be found in Christ.

Thanks for tuning in to the Prodigal Journey where we celebrate Christ's power through our weakness.

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Also, if you'd like to reach out, you can reach me Ben at the prodigal journey.com that's Ben at the prodigal journey.com tune in next time to the Prodigal Journey.

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