We’re starting Reconcile Stories because we believe the public square today is the Internet, and the best way to get the gospel there is by sharing real, messy stories of God’s grace through podcasts and video. I’m Will, pastor at Reconcile Community Church, and with Ben—our podcast guy—we want to amplify testimonies from our congregation and ministry partners so people can hear how Jesus actually shows up in everyday lives. You’ll hear people from wildly different backgrounds, and our hope is that someone listening will either go, “I resonate with that,” or “Man, God did something crazy”—both are wins. We also talk honestly about church hurt and how empathy, listening, and the kind of community Jesus modeled can be a place of real healing instead of just more side eye. So come hang with us, hear the stories, and yeah—pray for us as we try to do this well and keep it about Christ and his work in people.
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iHeartRadio SUMMARY/INTRO:
We’re starting Reconcile Stories because we believe the public square today is the Internet, and the best way to get the gospel there is by sharing real, messy stories of God’s grace through podcasts and video. I’m Will, pastor at Reconcile Community Church, and with Ben—our podcast guy—we want to amplify testimonies from our congregation and ministry partners so people can hear how Jesus actually shows up in everyday lives. You’ll hear people from wildly different backgrounds, and our hope is that someone listening will either go, “I resonate with that,” or “Man, God did something crazy”—both are wins. We also talk honestly about church hurt and how empathy, listening, and the kind of community Jesus modeled can be a place of real healing instead of just more side eye. So come hang with us, hear the stories, and yeah—pray for us as we try to do this well and keep it about Christ and his work in people.
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SHOW NOTES:
What happens when we make space for people to tell the stories of what God is doing in their lives?
In this introductory episode of Reconcile Stories, Will, pastor of Reconcile Community Church, sits down with Ben to talk about the vision behind this new church podcast and why sharing stories of God’s grace matters.
Will explains how his experience as a pastor has allowed him to hear countless stories of God’s faithfulness, transformation, struggle, and redemption. He wants Reconcile Stories to create a space where members of the church, ministry partners, friends, and others can share what God is doing in their lives—and hopefully encourage someone else who is listening.
Ben and Will also discuss how the internet has become a modern public square where people exchange ideas and stories through podcasts, YouTube, and social media. Rather than seeing those spaces only as entertainment, they explore how Christians can use them to communicate the gospel and highlight the ways God is working in real people’s lives.
A major theme of the conversation is the diversity of stories within the church. People come from different cultural, economic, and personal backgrounds, carrying different experiences of trauma, brokenness, faith, and transformation. Hearing those stories can help break down the assumptions people have about Christians and remind us that Jesus saves all kinds of people.
The conversation eventually turns toward church hurt and what it can look like to find healing through Christian community. Will and Ben talk about the temptation to isolate after being hurt by the church, the importance of empathy and listening, and the example of Jesus sitting with people in their pain before trying to fix anything.
They also talk about the tension between being honest about the church’s failures while still believing in the value of Christian community, using Paul’s experience of being welcomed by Barnabas as an example of how compassion can help bring people back into community.
Ultimately, Reconcile Stories is about creating space for people to hear how God’s grace is being worked out in real lives—and perhaps helping someone listening realize that their own story matters too.
TAKEAWAYS:
- Sharing stories of God’s grace can encourage people who are walking through difficult seasons.
- The internet has become a major place where people exchange ideas, stories, and experiences.
- Christians can use podcasts and other digital spaces to communicate the gospel through real stories.
- The church contains an incredibly diverse collection of backgrounds, experiences, and testimonies.
- Hearing stories that are different from our own can expand our understanding of God’s grace.
- People who have experienced church hurt may naturally want to isolate from the church.
- Christian community can also become part of the healing process after church hurt.
- Empathy and listening should often come before trying to fix someone’s pain.
- Jesus provides an example of acknowledging people’s suffering and showing compassion.
- Christians should be careful not to “side eye” people because of their past or assume they cannot be transformed.
- Paul’s experience with the early church shows the importance of people like Barnabas who are willing to extend compassion and welcome.
- Christians can hold the tension between recognizing the church’s failures and still valuing Christian community.
- The goal of Reconcile Stories is ultimately to glorify Christ and encourage people through stories of His grace.
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CHAPTERS:
00:00 — Why Reconcile Stories Exists
04:37 — Ben’s Journey Into Podcasting
07:02 — Why Diverse Stories Matter
09:49 — Ben’s Story & the Gospel’s Reach
14:59 — Church Hurt, Community & Healing
24:35 — Paul, Barnabas & Welcoming the Broken
32:05 — The Purpose Behind Reconcile Stories
36:42 — Praying for Those Experiencing Church Hurt
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00:00 - Why Reconcile Stories Exists
04:37 - Ben’s Journey Into Podcasting
07:02 - Why Diverse Stories Matter
09:49 - Ben’s Story & the Gospel’s Reach
14:59 - Church Hurt, Community & Healing
24:35 - Paul, Barnabas & Welcoming the Broken
32:05 - The Purpose Behind Reconcile Stories
36:42 - Praying for Those Experiencing Church Hurt
Speaker A
Foreign.
Speaker A
What's up, Ben?
Speaker B
Hey.
Speaker A
This is take two.
Speaker B
Take two.
Speaker A
Because we recorded.
Speaker A
Well, we thought we recorded some stuff.
Speaker B
About eight minutes in.
Speaker A
Yeah, man.
Speaker A
So we're just going to repeat everything.
Speaker A
I don't even know what I said.
Speaker A
I'm Will pastor Reconcile Community Church, and we are starting a podcast, a church podcast, called Reconcile Stories, primarily because as a pastor, I get to hear people's stories of what God is doing in their life, and I feel like I get a unique encouragement from that.
Speaker A
And I was thinking, and if we have members of our church, ministry partners, you know, friends of mine that are in ministry, that would come and share what the Lord is doing.
Speaker A
It just is going to offer a unique encouragement.
Speaker A
And Ben here has experience in podcasting, of which I don't have any, and so he's been instrumental and in getting this room together.
Speaker A
So.
Speaker A
I appreciate you, bro.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
I wish I had the idea about the light, but it wasn't my.
Speaker A
That was Christine.
Speaker A
I know.
Speaker A
I know.
Speaker A
That was Christine.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
Props, Christine.
Speaker A
It's dope.
Speaker A
But, yeah, man.
Speaker A
And so we're just kind of having an initial conversation.
Speaker A
I'm kind of gonna talk about, like, my inspirations.
Speaker A
It dawned on me the other day.
Speaker A
Well, first of all, I was like, how do I.
Speaker A
What is the most effective way to get the message of the gospel out there?
Speaker A
A lot of different ways.
Speaker A
And, you know, it used to be, like, in the.
Speaker A
In the.
Speaker A
Like in Apostle Paul's day, you know, there would be a place where people swap ideas, you know, and this, you know, the corner, the Eragopolis, whatever, the place where people are coming in to talk, and we really don't have a physical place for that anymore, you know?
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
And so that's why, you know, that's why people feel weird about street preachers.
Speaker A
Like, bro, what are you doing?
Speaker A
You know, back in Paul's day, that was not.
Speaker A
You know, that was.
Speaker A
Everybody was talking about something.
Speaker B
It's just.
Speaker A
It was this kind of entertainment.
Speaker A
And.
Speaker A
And so I was.
Speaker A
As.
Speaker A
I was thinking, I'm like, what are ways to.
Speaker A
To bring Christ to more people?
Speaker A
I realized that the public square really is the Internet.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
And that the places that ideas and stories are exchanged are in podcasts, YouTube, social media.
Speaker A
That really is.
Speaker A
Nobody thinks you're weird for saying weird stuff on social media.
Speaker A
People say weird stuff.
Speaker A
Okay, maybe they think you're a little weird.
Speaker B
Yeah, well, they have an opinion about it.
Speaker A
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker A
That's true.
Speaker A
That's true.
Speaker A
But it's not, you know, that's where ideas you know, people come up with that idea or stories.
Speaker A
That's the place where it's discussing.
Speaker A
And one of the most.
Speaker A
I think it is the most popular podcast is the Joe Rogan Experience, which is him just talking to people.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
Exchanging stories for three or four hours sometimes, which is.
Speaker A
If you have that amount of time.
Speaker A
Power to you that I have it.
Speaker A
I have to go to the clips part.
Speaker A
You know, what was the highlight?
Speaker A
But I think people are actually.
Speaker A
I think if you look at our society and take it away, like outside of the side of social media, it looks like people don't want to talk to each other.
Speaker A
You know, you don't see a whole lot of people striking up conversations with people, especially with those they don't know.
Speaker A
But then when you see how popular podcasts and YouTube videos are, you realize people really are hungering for information and connection.
Speaker A
And why would we not try to be in that space, too?
Speaker A
We think we have, you know, the information of the gospel is life changing and we have this connection through the church.
Speaker A
You know, why would we not seek to highlight that?
Speaker A
And so, yeah, I just.
Speaker A
There's a space there, and perhaps the Lord would use the stories from our church to, you know, encourage somebody and.
Speaker A
Yeah, invite somebody.
Speaker A
So, like, you've been really excited about it.
Speaker A
Like, tell me some of the reasons why you've been excited about, you know, working on this.
Speaker B
Yeah, so when you came to me, like, I didn't hesitate just because this is kind of my wheelhouse.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker B
And I've only been involved in podcasting for a few years now, since a little bit shortly after I moved back here.
Speaker B
Probably around 2020 is when I started officially doing podcast stuff.
Speaker B
But I just.
Speaker B
I came to that through.
Speaker B
I was working for the South Carolina Entertainment Music hall of Fame, working on a veterans music project with them, and we did a radio show that I ended up producing for them.
Speaker B
And then during COVID it shut down.
Speaker B
So I just had an idea like, hey, I'm gonna save up my money and every so often buy another piece of equipment till I have my own studio.
Speaker B
And then I started.
Speaker B
I took the music, like the local music part of the radio show and started doing it as a podcast.
Speaker B
And it just took off and I just enjoyed doing it.
Speaker B
I love the story side of podcasting.
Speaker B
I haven't done a whole lot with the video side yet, as you could probably tell, as we're trying to get it all figured out.
Speaker B
But my own podcast is a little behind on that right now.
Speaker B
But it's like telling a story when you think back to even, like the old time radio, where they would tell stories with, you know, and they'd use different objects for sound effects.
Speaker B
Like, it's been around for so long and it's just taken a different form now.
Speaker B
But then I also ended up launching another podcast called the Prodigal Journey.
Speaker B
And just during that time, I was in a recovery program, and then I started helping lead some of the groups there.
Speaker B
But I just liked the idea of people being able to tell their stories through the podcast form and just people being able to see all the different backgrounds that people come from and the way they've lived their life and seeing how God has changed them.
Speaker B
It's just an amazing thing to see in people's lives.
Speaker B
So.
Speaker B
And I got excited about it.
Speaker B
And I definitely know with this podcast there's so many different avenues we have, whether through stories of people of, you know, partners in our church, or continued conversations about messages or stuff like that.
Speaker B
There's just so many different avenues to reach people.
Speaker A
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A
For sure.
Speaker A
And I'm excited about it.
Speaker A
And, you know, I'm most excited about the stories.
Speaker A
And I think one of the things that's interesting on a given Sunday morning, you know, I'm out there preaching, and I look around the congregation and I'm struck by how diverse it is.
Speaker A
And I don't simply mean, you know, racially, but, like, just the different paths people have.
Speaker A
Have.
Speaker A
Have taken to get where they are, how the Lord has been faithful to them, has brought them from just this crazy variety of stuff.
Speaker A
And I think one of the cool things is pretty much no matter where you come from, your cultural background, if you show up at our church, I can point you to somebody.
Speaker A
Maybe they're not the exact same, but, like, there's.
Speaker A
There's some similarity there.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
And I think that for a lot of people, when they think about church, Christians, whatever they have a characterized view of, this is what Christians, you know, do.
Speaker A
This is what they value.
Speaker A
This is their story.
Speaker A
You know, they're probably pretty, you know, cleaned up or whatever.
Speaker A
And to be able to have such a diverse array of stories, I think what it says to people, it communicates the.
Speaker A
That Jesus saves all kinds of people and doesn't really, you know, it doesn't matter what background, doesn't matter what, you know, your economics or your story.
Speaker A
You got trauma, you perpetrated trauma.
Speaker A
Like, whatever it is, like, all the different things that I feel like people could hold as barriers for them to understand that God loves them.
Speaker A
When you see the story of God's grace kind of worked out in all these different lives.
Speaker A
I feel like it really breaks.
Speaker A
Breaks down some of those.
Speaker A
Those.
Speaker A
Those.
Speaker A
Those obstacles.
Speaker A
And so I just.
Speaker A
I'm really excited just to.
Speaker A
To share people's stories and.
Speaker A
And so that my hope is that as somebody's listening or watching, they can go either one or two things go like, man, I resonate with that.
Speaker A
Or go, man, God did something real crazy and real cool.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
And sometimes, too.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
It's just like my view of the gospel was too small.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker B
When you see some of those types of stories and both ends of the spectrum.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
So.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A
Tim Keller talks about the.
Speaker A
The two brothers, you know, the prodigal and then the one who stayed when he had his own issues.
Speaker A
And, you know, God's power is evident in both of those categories of people, you know, coming.
Speaker A
Coming to know him and stuff.
Speaker A
So I've had the.
Speaker A
The honor of hearing your testimony.
Speaker A
I don't think we have time to do your testimony justice today, so you stay tuned for another episode.
Speaker A
But I did, you know, again, the idea, just sharing stories of God's grace.
Speaker A
And so I just want to kind of ask you, like, you know, how did you get to reconcile?
Speaker A
You know, maybe what are you.
Speaker A
What are your first impressions?
Speaker A
What's God taught you while you've been here?
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
So.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
Shorter version.
Speaker A
Well, we're not starting, like, the day you were born.
Speaker A
Just.
Speaker A
I'm.
Speaker A
What you got here.
Speaker B
No, so my wife dawn and I, we.
Speaker B
So we've been partners here since actually last July, so a little over a year.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker B
It's hard to believe it's been that long.
Speaker A
It is, it is.
Speaker B
So.
Speaker B
So from that point to about maybe like eight to nine months before that, we were just visiting, you know, getting a feel for things.
Speaker B
And earlier in that eight to N9 Monon period, we had visited a few other churches and.
Speaker B
But we had stepped back from church for a few months just from some things we went through at our last church.
Speaker B
And we just happened to.
Speaker B
Dawn happened to find.
Speaker B
Somehow she found a clip.
Speaker B
So this goes back to your point of why.
Speaker B
Why do this to begin with.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
That's crazy.
Speaker A
I didn't know that.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
She somehow found one of your sermons online, and we'll have to ask her.
Speaker B
I can't remember exactly how it came up, but she found it when she was looking for different churches, and she's like, you.
Speaker B
You need to listen to this guy preach.
Speaker B
And some of these other pastors here and elders.
Speaker B
And so we just first Started off listening, you know, to the sermons online, and we're like, okay, we need to go visit.
Speaker B
And, like, even.
Speaker B
Even from, like, the first time visiting, I could.
Speaker B
I could sense a difference in this place compared to what we had come from.
Speaker B
And there were.
Speaker B
But there were also a lot of things, like, where I was just kind of like, keeping my hands stretched out, you know, keeping reconciled arm's length.
Speaker B
And then when I found out about the Baptist connections, I was like, well, I grew up in that.
Speaker B
I don't know if I want to go back to that affiliation, but the more we've been here and the more we've talked, I've just realized, like, your maturity as a young pastor just was, like, blowing our minds.
Speaker B
And the care that you have for God's people was something we hadn't.
Speaker B
Weren't experiencing.
Speaker B
And we were very much moved by that, moved by the people here and what God was doing.
Speaker B
And I was.
Speaker B
Yeah, I was able to work through a lot of those barriers just because the more I prayed and thought about it, I was like, well, I think some affiliation is good because you have accountability and people to hold you accountable.
Speaker B
And.
Speaker B
And, yeah, I just.
Speaker B
I mean, it's.
Speaker B
We.
Speaker B
When her and I have talked about this before, it seemed like every week we were coming to visit before we were partners during that time.
Speaker B
Like, every week you were saying something, I was like, I don't know if I've heard that before.
Speaker B
Or things were presented in a way where I was like, I've never thought about that before.
Speaker B
And also for us, the.
Speaker B
I think where the church is planted was a huge deal for us, too, because that, I know, at least for me, was something different.
Speaker B
That I had never been a part of a church that diverse before, whether, you know, ethnically, you know, socially, all the different aspects you talk about.
Speaker B
I mean, our church has it, and it's amazing to see that.
Speaker B
And I mean, I believe that's what heaven is going to be like.
Speaker B
When he says all people, all tribes, every tongue, nation.
Speaker B
And I think reconcile reflects that really well.
Speaker B
And the one thing that really also stood out to me was a lot of times that we met with you and talked kind of through where we were at and where we were coming from in our story.
Speaker B
Um, you were always very quick first to be empathetic and like, hey, man, that's.
Speaker B
That really stinks.
Speaker B
Like, I'm sorry.
Speaker B
Before you ever provided any, like, feedback or information or anything, you were listening.
Speaker B
And I think that's really crucial that people miss a lot of times, because I Forget who said this.
Speaker B
I forget the.
Speaker B
The person's name who said this, but he said trauma is not really what happens to us, but it's the absence of an empathetic witness.
Speaker B
And so that was huge for us here.
Speaker B
And even being able to have access to the elders and pastors, I mean, you still got to schedule stuff with people.
Speaker B
But, you know, I can.
Speaker B
I can call up one of the pastors or elders and be like, you know, I need to talk about this or pray about this.
Speaker B
And I mean, it's.
Speaker A
It's.
Speaker B
It's amazing.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
Yeah, man.
Speaker A
I do.
Speaker A
You know, I think a.
Speaker A
A strand that I kind of want to pick up on is basically, you would say, y' all have some church hurt.
Speaker A
I.
Speaker A
Would that be accurate?
Speaker A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A
And I feel like that is.
Speaker A
I feel like I talk to people a lot from different.
Speaker A
I mean, really radically different walks of life who have experienced, you know, someone.
Speaker A
So, yeah, just say church hurt.
Speaker A
And so I also think that when someone experiences church hurt, the inclination is to distance from.
Speaker A
From the church.
Speaker A
So how would you say getting closer with the church has helped your church?
Speaker A
Because it seems.
Speaker A
It seems counterintuitive.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
Because like you said, the initial reactions are to just pull away and isolate.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker B
But when I think about the model that were presented in the Bible and we.
Speaker B
We talk.
Speaker B
You were talking earlier about why people consume content like this.
Speaker B
It goes.
Speaker B
It just goes to show that.
Speaker B
That we were created to be relational beings, and that.
Speaker B
That, for me, was one of the biggest things that I even, like, stood out to me at reconcile about the men here.
Speaker B
Because even growing up, I came from a lot of churches that just were.
Speaker B
The women always ran things.
Speaker B
The men were very passive and didn't lead well.
Speaker B
But in that, there wasn't even room for the women to serve in that aspect.
Speaker B
So for me, it's about the relationship.
Speaker B
I'm a very personal, private person.
Speaker B
For the most part, I'm pretty reserved until I get to know people.
Speaker B
Like, my wife and I were talking about this the other day, and she's like, you.
Speaker B
You come across as being like.
Speaker B
Like people's first interaction with you sometimes is like, he.
Speaker B
He seems a little upset or something.
Speaker B
It's like.
Speaker B
So I've been trying to work on that, and now.
Speaker B
Now I carry on conversations at church.
Speaker B
He's like, we gotta go.
Speaker B
Come on.
Speaker B
So I was like, this is your fault.
Speaker B
You encouraged me to do this.
Speaker B
But even with character traits like that, you're still a relational person, because that's how we were created.
Speaker B
And I don't even remember your original question, but.
Speaker A
Yeah, just the idea that when someone experiences church hurt, they want to isolate.
Speaker A
They want to isolate.
Speaker A
But perhaps there could be healing.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
Through the church, which we would be counterintuitive.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
And we experienced a lot of that, too, visiting here, even before we became partners.
Speaker B
Like, we did have a time where we just weren't going.
Speaker B
We were focusing on our relationship with God and just some healing there.
Speaker B
But.
Speaker B
But there was a point where I was just like, we.
Speaker B
We have to go back.
Speaker B
And that is.
Speaker B
I think that's really tough to do for people who experience that because, you know, like, I don't.
Speaker B
I don't want to put myself back out there again.
Speaker B
You know, I don't want to experience that again.
Speaker B
But.
Speaker B
But the way you feel that connection to people when you are there and when you're worshiping together, I mean, you can't get that from streaming online or, you know, not going at all.
Speaker B
And I. I think that's what we're commanded to do.
Speaker B
Whether people do it in a building or they do it out of their homes.
Speaker B
Like, you've got to have that.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
Yes.
Speaker A
It's just so interesting.
Speaker A
Like, the.
Speaker A
You know, God created humanity to be interconnected, and we love that.
Speaker A
When it's good.
Speaker A
Right.
Speaker A
You know, if people are serving others and helping others, there's a lot of health.
Speaker A
But when people are, you know, acted in sin or just maybe being foolish, that hurts us.
Speaker A
But it's just interesting.
Speaker A
The means by which we were hurt, I. E. People and relationships are also the means by which we're healed.
Speaker A
And I just.
Speaker A
I find that so interesting.
Speaker A
I think one of the.
Speaker A
One of Satan's biggest temptations is isolation and is to use, like, what is, like, legitimate hurt.
Speaker A
Because, like, it's.
Speaker A
It's not like, it's not to downplay the hurt.
Speaker A
It's to use, like, legitimate hurt.
Speaker A
Legitimate broken relationships, legitimate, you know, you know, issues, disagreements, and then.
Speaker A
And then to.
Speaker A
To.
Speaker A
To make that a reason just to.
Speaker A
To kind of cocoon up.
Speaker A
And I've just found, like, you know, one of my greatest means of being encouraged is just being with God's people and experiencing deep care and love from God's people.
Speaker A
And.
Speaker A
But I. Yeah, but I realize it's difficult when in the same or a similar context, you experience hurt.
Speaker A
And so it's just.
Speaker A
And I'm sure it's really hard to, like, I'm gonna do this again, you know.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
And a lot of times Too when we process things, it's like we have a hard time living in the tension of two things can be equally true but opposite of each other.
Speaker B
And that, we see that a lot in the scriptures, those types of tensions.
Speaker B
But sometimes our brains want to be like, it's gotta be either people are pure evil or they're pure good.
Speaker B
You know, sometimes that's how we try to process it.
Speaker A
I think we actually, everybody to some degree is a walking contradiction.
Speaker A
And I think, you know, because we have that side of us that God has created, has made his image that's empowered with the spirit, then we have that side that just wants to live for ourselves.
Speaker A
And I think one realizing that everybody to a certain degree is a walking contradiction makes you be more suspect of yourself.
Speaker A
You know, like, okay, I know I got these, these warring sides within me.
Speaker A
And then the more that you realize you have those warring sides within yourself, the more you can have compassion on others who have those same warring sides.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
But that, that and then understanding that we are to a degree walking contradictions gives you a lot of compassion and Lord willing, a lot of humility.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
And so if we can have humility and compassion when we're talking to each other because we realize, I got this side of me that's made in the image of God that wants to honor him.
Speaker A
I got this side of me that just really wants to be about my glory.
Speaker A
But yeah, and then you got that in one person and then throw that one person into a community that has, they all have the same thing going on.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
You know what I mean?
Speaker A
Bunch of contradictions chilling with each other.
Speaker A
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
Needs God's grace for sure.
Speaker A
But I think that's why that, that, that, that humility going.
Speaker A
I, I'm kind of a walking contradiction.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
And.
Speaker A
But yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A
I think.
Speaker A
Church, churches, church is for real.
Speaker A
And I, the, the story that's coming to my mind is when, so Apostle Paul, when he gets, he gets saved in like Acts 9.
Speaker A
So like he gets knocked off his high horse.
Speaker A
He's like, I'm with the Lord.
Speaker A
He shows up the church and they're like, they're side eye, they're side eyeing him hard.
Speaker A
They're like, bro, like you was just try to kill us.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
Like, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A
Like.
Speaker A
And I1 I just, I imagine how hurt he must have felt.
Speaker A
Right?
Speaker A
Yeah, like he, like.
Speaker A
Cause he one he for him to switch sides like that from going from I want to arrest Christians to I want to be with Christians and then like side eyeing him.
Speaker A
That must have hurt because he's getting exiled from his former community.
Speaker A
Probably assuming he's about to get some friendship.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
And they're all like deathly afraid of him.
Speaker A
And I can imagine him going, forget this, you know, like I'm, hey Pharisees, can I come back?
Speaker A
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker A
So like I kind of put myself in shoes.
Speaker A
Imagine the pain he felt from the church, basically.
Speaker A
They basically call him a liar.
Speaker A
What's going down?
Speaker A
Yeah, you know, I follow Jesus.
Speaker A
Probably don't though, you know, but then you think about what Barnabas did, which is the son of encouragement, his name, that's what it means.
Speaker A
And he comes and he takes him alongside and vouches for him and brings him into the church community.
Speaker A
But yeah, that's great pain and also God's healing kind of in the same spot.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
And yeah, yeah, it just, it's just, it does take a level of like endurance and we need folks like Barnabas who can show compassion and can, you know, look at somebody like Paul and go, man, no, yeah, you, you was, you was wilding bro.
Speaker A
You know, like, yeah, you were, you were tripping.
Speaker A
But you know what?
Speaker A
I see God got at work in your life.
Speaker A
So come, come through.
Speaker A
Like I, I got you.
Speaker A
I'm going to be there for you, I'm going to listen to you, I'm going to encourage you.
Speaker A
So I just, yeah, I imagine that a lot of people could resonate with that, like the community, church community being like side eyeing you.
Speaker A
Which to be honest is one of the reasons why a lot of folks don't come to church.
Speaker A
They're really afraid of the side eye.
Speaker A
I really like just talking to people.
Speaker A
They're like, man, if I show up, if I show up me, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A
So I think it's really incumbent on Christians to like, don't side eye anybody.
Speaker A
Like knowing man, God one loves everybody and he can change, radically, transform.
Speaker A
One of the things I love, just this God's grace to our church is like there are people in leadership that would have been side eyed somewhere else.
Speaker A
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
And, and you can see God's grace in that, you know, so, yeah, and.
Speaker B
I, and you know, thinking about that like, so I think it was about two weeks ago while you were still on sabbatical, a friend of mine, like I, a friend of mine that works with me, I've been trying to kind of get him to come to church, but I had to do it differently than the other Christians at work.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker B
Because of just how it came across to him.
Speaker B
He's like, I don't want anything to do with that.
Speaker B
And I think we've actually talked about this situation a few times.
Speaker B
But two weeks ago, him and his girlfriend finally came.
Speaker B
But that's been like a year long process of just like in the moments of caring for him and his family when they need it, and just being there for them and listening to what he has to say, that makes a huge difference to people.
Speaker B
And when they said they were coming, it wasn't like I had this this kind of tinge of like, oh, no, what are people going to do when they come and they were received?
Speaker B
Well, people talked to them.
Speaker B
They didn't feel pressured.
Speaker B
It was just, you know, they're going to probably keep coming back.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
Praise God.
Speaker A
Yeah, man.
Speaker A
Well, that circles back to the thing you said about, you know, when someone is hurting or going through a difficult time, what they need first is just a listening ear and empathy.
Speaker A
And I think that just speaks volumes.
Speaker A
One of my favorite pictures of Jesus is he's.
Speaker A
There's two.
Speaker A
Two scenes.
Speaker A
One scene is where there's a guy who comes to him, I think he has leprosy or something.
Speaker A
And he says, if you're willing, could you heal me?
Speaker A
And you would expect him.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
But the text goes, he looked at him and he had empathy on him.
Speaker A
And it says, basically, like, the feeling is like there's this pit.
Speaker A
Basically, he had this pit in his stomach.
Speaker A
Knowing what, you know, in the ancient world, leprosy, this dude would have been ostracized.
Speaker A
Keep away.
Speaker A
Go on the other side of the street.
Speaker A
And even before Jesus did his healing miracle, he just sat for a minute and had empathy on that man.
Speaker A
And he looked at him and he said, I am willing.
Speaker A
Or when Jesus, you know, sees the crowd and even before he starts teaching, he looks at his disciples, he says, these people are like sheep without a shepherd.
Speaker A
He likes.
Speaker A
He sits for a minute.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
In that place of acknowledging people's pain, which is crazy to me because he is someone who could literally snap his fingers and fix it immediately.
Speaker A
Yet he decides to sit and resonate and feel the tension in the situation and the pain that the people around him feel.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
I think one of my favorite ones is, I forget.
Speaker B
I forget where it's at in the New Testament, but the lady who lost her son, and they're having this funeral procession and Jesus is there and the first thing he does is he cries with the woman.
Speaker B
You got all these other people around in the Procession, you've got the whalers.
Speaker B
They're just there because they're hired to be there, you know, And Jesus blocks all that out, and he just cries with the woman.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker B
Weeps with her.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker B
And you see that all over.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
And that just, you know, the.
Speaker A
It reminds me of the clear command in Romans where he just.
Speaker A
He just straight up says, weep with those who weep.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
You know, like, he.
Speaker A
He take.
Speaker A
I guess he been, you know, listening to Jesus.
Speaker A
You know, I can just go, like to make it plain, everybody.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
You know, and I think.
Speaker A
Well, I think that's one of the first things that we can do with those who have experienced church hurt is just go, man, that sucks.
Speaker A
And, you know, before seeking to fix or change or cajole, whatever, just to sit with them in that, I think that would be the way to imitate Christ, who sits with people in their pain, even before instruction, even before fixing, you know, he allows himself to sit there, feel it.
Speaker A
And so I think, even with.
Speaker A
I think a lot of people, rightly so.
Speaker A
Have an eagerness, you know, if someone's been hurt, you gotta eat.
Speaker A
Come on, come on, come on.
Speaker A
You have an eagerness to really, you know, say something or fix them or change them.
Speaker A
But we can really take a lot of cues from our Savior, who, before he does stuff, before he says the word of encouragement or comfort or before he does the miracle, he.
Speaker A
He sits there and acknowledges the pain that.
Speaker A
That someone's going through.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
Let me see what we got here.
Speaker B
So I. I do have one question for you.
Speaker A
Oh, snap.
Speaker B
Even though you're the kind of the host of this episode, please ask.
Speaker A
Ask.
Speaker B
So as we're.
Speaker B
We're just kind of talking through, like, the goals of this podcast and the direction.
Speaker B
Do you want to talk through it all?
Speaker B
Kind of some of the conflict you had over.
Speaker B
Do I start this?
Speaker B
Do I not?
Speaker B
I know we talked about that a couple times, but I think it's important for people to know just to get a sense of your heart for the direction and kind of the.
Speaker B
Some of the wrestling you had over it.
Speaker A
Sure, sure.
Speaker A
Well, one of the faults of mine is I don't remember a lot, so I don't try to figure out what was my conflict.
Speaker A
But here's what I think my conflict was.
Speaker A
I, I, you know, Bible has very clear commands to not have any selfish ambition and to not seek to promote yourself.
Speaker A
I even think one of my favorite stories is when Jesus, like, when you show up at a banquet, don't sit at the front seat, go sit in the back.
Speaker A
And if somebody wants you to come to the front, then they'll call you, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A
And, and so I, I think I, I, I think there's referring to, back to something we talked about.
Speaker A
I know I'm a walking contradiction, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A
So I could be like, it's for God's glory.
Speaker A
And then like, in my heart I'd be like, I'm on TV, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker B
Like, so we got 50 sponsors.
Speaker A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A
So I feel like I needed to do some, some checking of my heart, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A
The other thing is, I think for those who hold doctrine, seriously, which I would probably, I would include myself in that.
Speaker A
Like, you know, I, I want it, I want biblical doctrine to be there.
Speaker A
I want, like, when people are talking, like, tell me the Bible, like, your gut's cool, but like, I need a Bible, you know, saying, you know, I feel like for those people, it could be really easy to look at some of the Christian content and go, that's whack.
Speaker A
In reality, some of it is whack, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A
But you can't critique something if you aren't willing to do something about it.
Speaker A
And so I remember like, when the Lord saved me when I was 14, and I just, I just wanted to know Lord, I would, I would, if it said Jesus, I was going to read it or listen to it or.
Speaker A
And that, that got me in trouble sometimes, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A
Like, you know, I'm, and so, so I feel like, you know, if someone were to look at me at a younger state and go, you know, your, your doctrine, your theology is jacked up.
Speaker A
And I'm like, well, I, who were you?
Speaker A
I didn't know you wasn't on the tv.
Speaker A
You know, like, I could, you know, I didn't know who you were.
Speaker A
You know, it didn't feel like, you know, that shows how old I am.
Speaker A
Tv.
Speaker A
It wasn't no social media, but like, you weren't out there.
Speaker A
So, like, how could I?
Speaker A
And so, like, it'd be real easy to maybe complain of like, the lack of solid doctrine or the lack of biblical teaching that's out there in the social media world.
Speaker A
But if I'm unwilling to seek to serve, to do something about that, that I certainly can't complain about it.
Speaker A
So that's, yeah, and then, yeah, that's kind of my, my thought process.
Speaker A
So I think the reality is I'm going to have to consistently check myself to make sure it's not about, you know, me or, you know, the church or, you know, I want it to be about.
Speaker A
About Christ and his work in people.
Speaker A
And so this is just a. I'm shooting a shot, and if.
Speaker A
If it gets, you know, in the goal, that's.
Speaker A
That's the Lord's grace on it.
Speaker B
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B
And that's what I was going to say, too.
Speaker B
I think it's.
Speaker B
I think underneath glorifying God, it's.
Speaker B
It's about a ministry for the people at Reconcile.
Speaker B
And whatever God does with that, beyond that, that's up to him.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker B
But I'm excited to see what.
Speaker B
What happens in the ways God can use it.
Speaker B
So.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
Yeah, we'll see.
Speaker A
Y', all.
Speaker A
Y' all pray for us.
Speaker A
Pray, Pray for us that the Lord will use it and to help honor.
Speaker A
Honor his name, glorify his son.
Speaker A
So I do.
Speaker A
Before we wrap up, I do wanna.
Speaker A
I wanna take some time praying for folks who have experienced church hurt.
Speaker A
So that'd be inappropriate.
Speaker A
Not inappropriate.
Speaker A
It would be appropriate, yes.
Speaker A
So, yeah, I'll pray, I'll pray, and I'll just kind of wrap it up in prayer.
Speaker B
Sounds good.
Speaker A
Okay.
Speaker A
Father, we thank you so much for your mercy and your kindness.
Speaker A
Lord, we thank you for the stories of grace that you have written in our lives and in the lives of those around us.
Speaker A
Father, we want to let those who are hurting right now, those who have experience church hurt, perhaps betrayals or folks abusing authority.
Speaker A
Jesus, you care deeply about those folks.
Speaker A
You have compassion.
Speaker A
And not only do you have compassion, you can resonate in a very real way.
Speaker A
The religious leaders of your day lied about you.
Speaker A
They brought you to crucifixion and rejoiced at your death.
Speaker A
So, Lord, I pray that you would let those who are experiencing church or who have a really complicated relationship with church.
Speaker A
Lord, I pray that first that they could know.
Speaker A
They could come to you and know that you don't stand aloft, that you understand what they're going through, that you are a high priest who sympathizes.
Speaker A
And, Father, I pray that you would give them the courage to seek the healing that the church provides.
Speaker A
And this we've been talking about how the same community that sometimes hurts is the same community that you work through to bring healing.
Speaker A
And so I pray that you would draw people to yourself, that you would draw people to healthy churches that love the scriptures and that seek to imitate not only the content of the scriptures, but the attitude and personality of Jesus Christ.
Speaker A
Lord, we pray that you bless this podcast.
Speaker A
They would encourage somebody and you would bless our future efforts to do something for your kingdom.
Speaker A
In Jesus name, Amen.
Speaker B
Amen.
Speaker A
Word.
